To my right thinking friends, re: Saddleback

[Negotiator]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

Wow '86 you really looked at this closely. I learned something. Is the text of this forum available yet?

Full text is available at ONLINE NEWSROOM: Rick Warren

[IndoSpartan]

Thanks guys! I heard almost all of the forum. Probably good to read and see what was really said and what wasn't.

[Island of misfit toys]

Last diversion and then I'm dropping out of this thread. The neocons and zionists are out in the open for anyone who cares. Now, I'm walking out there in Dr. X territory. What is this? Is this nuts!?

YouTube - Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo

[spacemaker2]

Guess the best woman did not win. Hillary clearly at least knows why she believes what she believes. Obama does not. As a lefty I'm may have to agree with that nut BEE.

[Coach Ks bad back]

Originally Posted by '86

Last diversion and then I'm dropping out of this thread. The neocons and zionists are out in the open for anyone who cares. Now, I'm walking out there in Dr. X territory. What is this? Is this nuts!?

YouTube - Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo

You are truly incredible old chap. Do you see zionists in your cheerios?

That said, I myself could never cast a ballot for McCain. The man's contempt for the national sovereignty of the United States is very much on par with Obamas, just cast in a different light.

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

You are truly incredible old chap. Do you see zionists in your cheerios?

That said, I myself could never cast a ballot for McCain. The man's contempt for the national sovereignty of the United States is very much on par with Obamas, just cast in a different light.

Hey Buddy,

I've been lonely, no one wants to come out and play.

Good news Hans, the zionists are starting to bore me. Way too much evidence there for anyone willing to see it. Anyone not along for the ride at this point is probably just happy with their family, their job, college football and presidential politics. Even I watched the Saddleback forum.

Anyway, moving on, what do you know about Aaron Russo, the Rockefellers, secret societies...? Sounds like two of your favorites, Chomsky and Paul, neither questions the popular version of what happend on 9/11. I thought that might help you sleep better tonight.

Gotta say though, I'll be checking out Sy Hersh more in the future. Bilderbergs, Illuminati...here I come!

[Island of misfit toys]

JFK, and he's not just talking about the Soviets, his words tell us that his warning is for us.

YouTube - John F Kennedy - Secret society speech

[Island of misfit toys]

Are you still out there, Hans? I know, I know, I said I was done...and I am. It's just that this one had such a catchy title, I thought you might like it.

YouTube - Finkelstein - The Coming Breakup of American Zionism

[Coach Ks bad back]

Gotta give me better sources than that '86. Credible people. C'mon, you can do it!!

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by Hans Klopek

Gotta give me better sources than that '86. Credible people. C'mon, you can do it!!

I actually made a list today, I'm starting to keep names.

Seymour Hersh
Michael Lerner
Ira Chernus
Norman Finklestein
Noam Chomsky
John Mearscheimer
Stephen Walt
Aaron Russo

All those guys are bad guys, huh? Self-loathers, suffering from their oppression from the goyim?

Anyway, no faking, I really do want to look into this globalism thing. The original Rockefeller, European Baptist, something like that, right? See Hans, no matter what you might think about me, my disdain for bad guys isn't constrained by race, religion or ethnicity. Russo and maybe Alex Jones are my strongest threads for unraveling an international conspiracy larger than the zionist rape of the United States. I don't know where it'll take me, but the national bank, the Maine, income taxes...there's a whole lot that pre-dates 1948.

Hopefully tomorrow I can finish up Jones' interview of Russo, and I also want to look at the entire, recent Finklestein lecture. Finklestein is new to me, but I so enjoyed watching him tear Wolf Blitzer a new *******, I think I'm going to learn many interesting things. There was also this name that came up, Leo Zagami, something like that. I don't know where the hot trails turn into quackery but I'm excited about the discovery process.

One thing, I do believe Jesus is Lord of all. Even if there were an anti-Christ to rise up somewhere in all of this, you know, computer chips implanted in peoples' skin, etc., etc. We live with Jesus until we die and then we live with him again forevermore. Contrary to a lot of dark Christian eschatology, the underlying theme that we won gloriously 2000 years ago isn't lost on me. Alright now Hans, I'm going to bed, but I can play some more tomorrow if you like.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

I'm against killing JSR. I would be against killing doctors and women. You are right it would be difficult to police miscarriages. We could stop abortions in some states and the sale of morning after pills. If people break the law then they should face the consequences... same with those that engage in civil disobedience by preventing abortions.

All women are poor JSR and discriminated against. I am tired of society pressuring poor women to kill their babies. My moral stand is based on money and geography? That's why I give to Right to Life? Where's your middle ground JSR?

I want all abortions stopped. I want all killing stopped. I seem to have no voice on other people's lives or what goes on in my country in this except I have validity when it comes to my taxes so that is where I am approaching it.

It's fine to say that if people break the law, they should face the consequences - no one is arguing with that. But if your proposed laws give zygotes the same consideration that current laws give you and me, the result would include killing doctors and women. First degree murder is a capital crime.

You also seem to have a pretty cavalier attitude about investigating miscarriages. It wouldn't just be difficult from a law-enforcement standpoint, it would also be extremely rough on women who suffer miscarriages and then would have to suffer police interrogations. They'd also lose their right to a private patient-doctor relationship.

None of this bothers you, just as long as you can stop some abortions in some states. You claim you're taking some sort of middle ground, but all you're doing is targeting all women - hoping to scare some and criminalize others. It's a scattershot approach and it won't work.

Your support of "Right to Life" is just being used to get mostly right-wing candidates elected. With Republicans owning all three branches of government for the first six years of Bush's presidency, the abortion rate still didn't go down. It may have eased your conscience, but it's not having any effect on abortions.

The reality is that abortion is impossible to eliminate. Even if abortion were illegal, women would still have abortions, and most wouldn't get caught. If you want to lower the abortion rate, concentrate on eliminating some of the reasons women get abortions: unwanted pregnancy, lack of medical insurance, difficulty for single moms to work and raise children, etc.

Unlike you, I don't pretend to have a middle ground. Criminalizing women and doctors, depriving them of privacy, and putting government into the uterus is unacceptable to me. Helping women prevent unwanted pregnancy and eliminating the obstacles of having children is the most reasonable and effective strategy.

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Jack's Smirking Revenge

It's fine to say that if people break the law, they should face the consequences - no one is arguing with that. But if your proposed laws give zygotes the same consideration that current laws give you and me, the result would include killing doctors and women. First degree murder is a capital crime.

You also seem to have a pretty cavalier attitude about investigating miscarriages. It wouldn't just be difficult from a law-enforcement standpoint, it would also be extremely rough on women who suffer miscarriages and then would have to suffer police interrogations. They'd also lose their right to a private patient-doctor relationship.

None of this bothers you, just as long as you can stop some abortions in some states. You claim you're taking some sort of middle ground, but all you're doing is targeting all women - hoping to scare some and criminalize others. It's a scattershot approach and it won't work.

Your support of "Right to Life" is just being used to get mostly right-wing candidates elected. With Republicans owning all three branches of government for the first six years of Bush's presidency, the abortion rate still didn't go down. It may have eased your conscience, but it's not having any effect on abortions.

The reality is that abortion is impossible to eliminate. Even if abortion were illegal, women would still have abortions, and most wouldn't get caught. If you want to lower the abortion rate, concentrate on eliminating some of the reasons women get abortions: unwanted pregnancy, lack of medical insurance, difficulty for single moms to work and raise children, etc.

Unlike you, I don't pretend to have a middle ground. Criminalizing women and doctors, depriving them of privacy, and putting government into the uterus is unacceptable to me. Helping women prevent unwanted pregnancy and eliminating the obstacles of having children is the most reasonable and effective strategy.

Obviously if you change the abortion law you have the same ability to change the existing laws and come up with a fair punishment for those that break the law. Abortion is as impossible to eliminate, as is murder, as is drug abuse, as is theft, as is speeding... and yes I am and will do what I can to help women with their babies. Scattershot is what we do with all crime isn't it?

I read on one site (an abortion one) that said 1/2 the pregnancies in America are unwanted. Whether they are wanted or not means NOTHING to me... people are formed and alive and deserve to be wanted and loved. Ask me how many children I wanted? Ask me how many I would kill for a little more convenience and personal freedom? The answer to both is 0. I love my kids and I wouldn't trade them for anything. I take responsibility for all my actions.

I also know plenty of women who have tried to have children and continue to miscarry. You know what the insurance company calls someone that miscarries 3 times... a "habitual aborter". Privacy? You're kidding, right?

You know nothing about my support to Right to Life. Think locally JSR.

Are you saying you have no middle ground or that I am pretending to have a middle ground? I haven't criminalized any one JSR. I am not putting the government into anyone's uterus... in fact I want them out! The abortion business is alive and well in America. Cavalier? What do you call your attitude to the 40 million aborted?

How are you preventing unwanted pregnancies? Education? It would seem most people in America know where babies come from...at least more than when my parents were growing up; and so with this wealth of knowledge we have seen a drop in pregnancies? You are right to mention privacy as this is the basis of Roe vs. Wade... a privacy law. You really think that is the original intent of the privacy law... providing abortions on demand? Let me say it again. I am against killing of people.

[Bob Sakimano]

did people really watch this garbage??

[IndoSpartan]

I watched it and thought it was informative. I am going to go over the transcripts again today. I wish they did these debates all the time... maybe ask the candidates simultaneously the same question (they can be wherever they want in the world), where they can't hear each other and then play it back for everyone. The less prep for the answer the better I think...

[Bob Sakimano]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

I watched it and thought it was informative. I am going to go over the transcripts again today. I wish they did these debates all the time... maybe ask the candidates simultaneously the same question (they can be wherever they want in the world), where they can't hear each other and then play it back for everyone. The less prep for the answer the better I think...

it's the religious-freak factor that creeps me out - those people are dangerous... just look at bu$h, Bin Laden, etc.

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Bob Sakimano

it's the religious-freak factor that creeps me out - those people are dangerous... just look at bu$h, Bin Laden, etc.

me? '86?... kill 'em all... Atheists are the only safe people in the world (Stalin, Pol Pot..)... Then again Obama and McCain both claim to be "religious-freaks" so you must be mighty scared... a no win situtation?

[Bob Sakimano]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

me? '86?... kill 'em all... Atheists are the only safe people in the world (Stalin, Pol Pot..)... Then again Obama and McCain both claim to be "religious-freaks" so you must be mighty scared... a no win situtation?

it does suck to be one of the few logical and enlightened folks who don't invest faith in a bearded dude living in the clouds.....

[Island of misfit toys]

Originally Posted by Bob Sakimano

it does suck to be one of the few logical and enlightened folks who don't invest faith in a bearded dude living in the clouds.....

Yeah, but shouldn't you be reserving all that precious logic and enlightenment for discussion of lattes, world music and asian porn?

[Bob Sakimano]

Originally Posted by '86

Yeah, but shouldn't you be reserving all that precious logic and enlightenment for discussion of lattes, world music and asian porn?

at least that stuff makes sense (though I'm not into world music or asian porn)..

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Bob Sakimano

at least that stuff makes sense (though I'm not into world music or asian porn)..

I'm not into lattes (like my coffee strong like my wife) or Asian porn...

world music? I likey

Still waiting for my blueberry muffin Bob...

[Yes We Can]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

I'm not into lattes (like my coffee strong like my wife) or Asian porn...

world music? I likey

Still waiting for my blueberry muffin Bob...

go get a room, or get married in california or something. gheezs

[Bob Sakimano]

Originally Posted by IndoSpartan

I'm not into lattes (like my coffee strong like my wife) or Asian porn...

world music? I likey

Still waiting for my blueberry muffin Bob...

they were out.. sorry dude.

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Darkness

go get a room, or get married in california or something. gheezs

YouTube - hello darkness my old friend!!!

already married Darkness How bout you? You married?

[Mr. Tanfan]

Originally Posted by IMrightURwrong

I watched it and thought they both did well.

You mean, you weren't influenced by the rightwing slanted comments above? I don't want to see another Republican in the White House, but the Dems blew a golden opportunity to win back the Presidency by nominating an African American. This county is too biggoted to elect Obama. Hope I am wrong, but I can't see it happening.

[IndoSpartan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Tanfan

You mean, you weren't influenced by the rightwing slanted comments above? I don't want to see another Republican in the White House, but the Dems blew a golden opportunity to win back the Presidency by nominating an African American. This county is too biggoted to elect Obama. Hope I am wrong, but I can't see it happening.

You need a quote from Darkness in your signature to make it complete.