Almost time for Obama to bring the thunder

[Cym Jim]

Originally Posted by Enrico Palazzo

teachers making $90K? Whatever.

My sister made under $30K in MI. My father-in-law, as school board president, was told to give early retirement to any teacher making over $55K so they could hire a bunch of new college grads for under $30K. That's reality as the GOP continues to gut education funding. Most college professors don't make $90K.

Indeed - and there are few groups in the country who pay more toward their health costs.

It's not that Mitch doesn't care - he just doesn't know better.

[caspper69]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

Even if a teacher makes $50,000 annually, that's basically like making $70-80,000 considering they have about 25-30% more time off during a given year than most of us do.

Yeah, good luck getting a $30k job for the 110 days of summer vacation.

[LA_Spartan]

Even the talking heads on Fox News are having trouble saying anything bad about the speech.

He did what he needed to do tonight. Now the rest of his campaign has to pull their heads out of their asses for the next 67 days.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Floyd Robertson

Reagan had a huge impact on the world stage and it made a difference.

really?

[Negotiator]

Originally Posted by DantonIzzo

Even if a teacher makes $50,000 annually, that's basically like making $80,000 considering they have about 25-30% more time off during a given year than most of us do.

I'm gonna hold your feet to the fire on this one. A 15-yr Ann Arbor vet doesn't make that $90,000 level you quoted, I wanna know who in this state's making that kind of dough.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Enrico Palazzo

teachers making $90K? Whatever.

You saying it doesn't happen?

[Mitch C.]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Oh I think it certainly can matter. But in an odd sense it can feel like his campaign is guilt-tripping people into voting for him via that like it has been argued by some that Obama's campaign is guilt-tripping people via race.

I think the sticking point comes in when someone uses McCain's time as a POW to demonstrate his character but simultaneously argues that his affair should be discounted. Yes, the affair happened a long time ago, and people can change. By the same token, he was a POW an even longer time ago. I'm missing the distinction where a person can say "forget the faults but remember the praises" and to me at least sounds hollow.

That was kid of what I was getting at. McCain has rode the coattails of his time as a POW for decades. This country has changed, people don't care about that now. They want to what is going to be done for them, and don't care McCain spent 5 years as a POW when it comes to voting and electing a President.

President Carter called McCain out for milking his POW experience, and I agree with Carter. It's been 36 years since McCain was released, tell people what you will do in the future, not what happened in the past.

I think McCain has ridden the POW thing to where he is today, it certainly hasn't hurt him in any way, and you know that put millions of votes in his pocket over the years. It got him elected in the first place.

Crap or get off the pot, old man.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

I'm gonna hold your feet to the fire on this one. A 15-yr Ann Arbor vet doesn't make that $90,000 level you quoted, I wanna know who in this state's making that kind of dough.

Just to throw a number out there. I know a prof at a local community college making over 100k

[Negotiator]

Originally Posted by TheDoctorIsIn

Just to throw a number out there. I know a prof at a local community college making over 100k

Now that certainly may be, and it might be my fault making the following assumption: When I hear "teachers" I think "K-12." If we're talking post-secondary education I'm thinking "professors." I should've asked to get that clarified before jumping in. Are there some professors making serious change? Yeah, I'll agree to that. K-12 guys? That I'm not buying.

[Mitch C.]

Originally Posted by Enrico Palazzo

teachers making $90K? Whatever.

My sister made under $30K in MI. My father-in-law, as school board president, was told to give early retirement to any teacher making over $55K so they could hire a bunch of new college grads for under $30K. That's reality as the GOP continues to gut education funding. Most college professors don't make $90K.

Sorry Rico, as they grow in tenure, they make over $90K. I get to see their salaries, and $90K a year is not uncommon in the Detroit area. Teachers start off at the $30k-$40K range, which is normal, but as they work to build their credentials and take classes at the districts expense, and accumulate 20-25 years of tenure, $90K a year is commonplace. I see it daily. I jsut saw a payroll of a large Oakland County district, and probably half were at over $65K a year. Add in they have health insuance they pay nothing for which is far better than anything we have, and a retiree pension and healthcare plan.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for teachers. I have negotiated union contracts for AFSCME, UAW, police and fire, and the most unruly bunches I have ever been involved with are teachers. Other unions understand the economic landscape and will adjust their negotiations, teachers are unreasonable and I hate working with them, they think they are entitled to more than every person walking this Earth. They don't budge an inch on anything.

[Cym Jim]

Originally Posted by TheDoctorIsIn

Just to throw a number out there. I know a prof at a local community college making over 100k

What's wrong with that? Do you hate America?

[TheDoctorIsIn]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Now that certainly may be, and it might be my fault making the following assumption: When I hear "teachers" I think "K-12." If we're talking post-secondary education I'm thinking "professors." I should've asked to get that clarified before jumping in. Are there some professors making serious change? Yeah, I'll agree to that. K-12 guys? That I'm not buying.

For a little context, it's my dad, so I know it's not made up (as I've seen the numbers on my student loan forms)

He does teach part time in the summer though, so maybe that's part of it.

He's also said the community colleges often pay more than universities, suprisingly.


I'm not really taking a side on this, just putting the number out there.

[Floyd Robertson]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

really?

So you think the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain collapsed all by itself?

OK.

I'll check back tomorrow...gotta sleep.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by TheDoctorIsIn

Just to throw a number out there. I know a prof at a local community college making over 100k

That doesn't shock me. I would guess you get there after a lot of year, and I would guess that any prof at MSU makes at least that much

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Floyd Robertson

So you think the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain collapsed all by itself?

Well if you listen to the Dems, that's what you'd believe

[Cym Jim]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

That doesn't shock me. I would guess you get there after a lot of year, and I would guess that any prof at MSU makes at least that much

Nope - starting is around $60 -65. That's why I, and many of my colleagues, left. You're not getting over $100 until you're full professor (maybe associate), give up your research for administrative work, and play the game of interviewing for jobs at other universities.

There are plenty of good folks at 2 year schools who have done this, hence the 100k+ salary.

[tuff bob]

Teachers in my school district:

Teachers in see their salaries increase by nearly 5 percent next year as part of a new five-year contract approved last week by the school board.

Under a contract that takes effect Aug. 25, salaries will go up 3.1 percent in the 2009-10 school year. Raises will be based on the cost of living in the last three years of the deal, which ends in 2013.

Beginning teachers with a bachelor's degree will be paid $40,000 during the 2008-09 school year and $41,241 in 2009-10. Faculty with a master's degree will be paid $44,801 in 2008-09 and $46,190 the next. Teachers with a master's and 60 credit hours of course work beyond the degree will get $54,081 and $55,757 the next. Teachers with a master's plus 60 credit hours and 25 years of experience will earn $92,166 during the first year.


The school superintendent will earn $200,000.

[Mitch C.]

Originally Posted by Cym Jim

Indeed - and there are few groups in the country who pay more toward their health costs.

It's not that Mitch doesn't care - he just doesn't know better.

You are wrong Jim, I see the data, you don't. I have much more to speak from as far as experience goes than you do

The first time I opened a teachers census and saw how much some of them made, my jaw hit my desk.

If some teacher was making $30K it was likely a very small district or a charter school, they pay less and some are not unionized. That I will agree with. When it comes to large districts, teachers can make over $90K and superintedents of those districts probably make a half mil.

I don't work on small districts, I only work with large ones in the Detroit area.

[caspper69]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

Well if you listen to the Dems, that's what you'd believe

I don't think I've ever, ever, ever heard a Dem complain about Reagan's foreign policy, especially during the cold war.

The Iran Contras? Sure. Trickle-down economics? Of course. The drug cartels and secret service narcotics shenanigans? Yup.

Foreign policy, especially as it pertains to the former USSR? Never.

[Negotiator]

Originally Posted by Mitch C.

I jsut saw a payroll of a large Oakland County district, and probably half were at over $65K a year.

Without trying to get you in trouble, which district? About two thirds of the cities in Oakland County have a median household income of over $65k. Median for the county is $70k, and that was two years ago.

[IndoSpartan]

Then there's the bribes?....