Since Obama will cover pre-existing conditions

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by AbbottHallAbsyntheDrinker

Yeah good luck with that.

I'm pretty sure most employers would gladly do that in exchange for not having to deal with dealing with healthcare.

At least that what lefties tell me.

[SBSpartan]

Originally Posted by Jack78

I know that I shouldn't be, but I'm a bit stunned by this response. Can you please explain this response, SB? You work for an insurance company, right? Do you understand the concept of pooled risk?

Yes I do. The pool is controlled at some level though Jack. The pool wouldn't exist if say 10 people out of 100 had potentially terminal conditions. If you didn't control that kind of thing (like the poster said) the premiums would become completely unaffordable.

That is pretty basic but answers the question.

There is a reason people don't get through underwriting sometimes. It's because if they did costs would blow up (not to mention their insurance would be insane).

Remember Jack, risk is the key word in all this.

BTW thanks for at least staying on topic.

[GRR Spartan]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I'm pretty sure most employers would gladly do that in exchange for not having to deal with dealing with healthcare.

At least that what lefties tell me.

For a guy whose so smart you whine a lot about a country you chose to live in.

If you think that the current batch of health care providers aren't going to bait and switch or delay higher premiums for a year or 2 to lock you in you are naive.

I since I buy my own coverage I have seen it all. Cheap policies with nothing but a card to get you into a hospital to start the meter to policies that have great coverage that would cost me $22K that are offered to groups as $11K policies. The health insuance industry are chomping at the bit for McCain's plan. They know they can make huge profits with millions of individual policies and pay out even less as they burry the individual with paperwork.

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

There is the expectation that if the employer will give you what they would have spent on health insurance in your pay check. If that happens then the plan is initially 'neutral' to most people

So yer saying that if an employer terminates your health coverage, costing $12K, and bumps pay by that amount, that you'll get a $12K income tax deduction to reduce yer taxable income?

[AbbottHallAbsyntheDrinker]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I'm pretty sure most employers would gladly do that in exchange for not having to deal with dealing with healthcare.

At least that what lefties tell me.

You must be talking to the lefties at the Big Three who like the idea of single payer.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

For a guy whose so smart you whine a lot about a country you chose to live in.

I'm smart enough to know that I don't want government meddling in my healthcare after what happened when they meddled with the mortgage market (oh and previous experience with government healthcare). The level of meddling they have already has inflated the cost of insurance by burdening providers with unnecessary rules and regulation.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Jack78

So yer saying that if an employer terminates your health coverage, costing $12K, and bumps pay by that amount, that you'll get a $12K income tax deduction to reduce yer taxable income?

That's what McCain's $5k credit is designed to offset. Since that would represent over 40% of the 12k, most people should come out ahead, especially if the credit is "fully refundable".

[SBSpartan]

Originally Posted by Jack78

So yer saying that if an employer terminates your health coverage, costing $12K, and bumps pay by that amount, that you'll get a $12K income tax deduction to reduce yer taxable income?

I really don't like the 12K arguement only because where does it go from there? Meaning, what else will that arguement extend to in government programs. More importantly, the Gov almost always throwns out numbers that are nowhere near what they actually are so what is the real number?

Let's not forget that the Gov just took 700 bil last week. I am not of the belief you will see many Gov programs poping up anytime soon.

[tuff bob]

ABC News: Health Savings Accounts: Putting Patients in Control

[AbbottHallAbsyntheDrinker]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I'm smart enough to know that I don't want government meddling in my healthcare after what happened when they meddled with the mortgage market (oh and previous experience with government healthcare). The level of meddling they have already has inflated the cost of insurance by burdening providers with unnecessary rules and regulation.

Your non-interventionist/market fundamentalism ideology is dead. The "Free-Marketeers" in New York and Washington just killed it.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by AbbottHallAbsyntheDrinker

Your non-interventionist/market fundamentalism ideology is dead. The "Free-Marketeers" in New York and Washington just killed it.

killed by the intervention of the government

[IGGcitable]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I'm smart enough to know that I don't want government meddling in my healthcare after what happened when they meddled with the mortgage market.

The mortgage market blew up because the government did NOT meddle in it -- the Reaganaut wet dream of the laissez-faire "miracle of the marketplace" allowed all sorts of shysters, frauds, swindlers and idiots to take over the mortgage market and the whole thing went to $#$# all at once. If there had been more government regulation, maybe some of the bozos would have been kept out.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by IGGcitable

The mortgage market blew up because the government did NOT meddle in it

Fannie and Freddie: Why doubts persist - Scotsman.com News

[SBSpartan]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

No but since you think cancerand other conditionsares such a yuk fest, let me clue you in. My mother died of liver cancer at 51. My paternal grandmother died of liver cancer at 79. I pay a higher premium because of medical history and was told I would be uninsurable if I was a cancer survivor. I'm self insured (unlike you laughing boy).

So with a universal coverage system the insurance companies can't pick and choose. I certainly hope you don't find yourself filing for bankruptcy because you lose your medical coverage, get sick and get buried financially because you couldn't afford an individual policy to keep the wolves from the door.

Cance is not a yuk fest ass wipe. My mother is a survivor. Assigning risk in this fashion is a yuk fest.

[SBSpartan]

Originally Posted by Spartytruth

Other than cost, what is nonfunctioning about medicare?

Well, about 38% of the claims in Florida alone have been determened to be fraudulent.

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by SBSpartan

Yes I do. The pool is controlled at some level though Jack. The pool wouldn't exist if say 10 people out of 100 had potentially terminal conditions. If you didn't control that kind of thing (like the poster said) the premiums would become completely unaffordable.

That is pretty basic but answers the question.

There is a reason people don't get through underwriting sometimes. It's because if they did costs would blow up (not to mention their insurance would be insane).

Remember Jack, risk is the key word in all this.

BTW thanks for at least staying on topic.

This such complete and udder BS. You're talking from the perspective of hurting insurance company profits. That is the issue. The profit motive pushes Insurance companies to look for ways to NOT cover medical expenses. This is why so many families go financially bankrupt when a loved one is suddenly stricken by serious disease.

Yes, "risk" is the key word ... it needs to be spread. IMO, the only difference in premiums s/b based on incenting healthy life styles.

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by SBSpartan

I really don't like the 12K arguement only because where does it go from there? ...

Average cost for family of four.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Jack78

The profit motive pushes Insurance companies to look for ways to NOT cover medical expenses.

not even close

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

I'm smart enough to know that I don't want government meddling in my healthcare after what happened when they meddled with the mortgage market (oh and previous experience with government healthcare). The level of meddling they have already has inflated the cost of insurance by burdening providers with unnecessary rules and regulation.

As expected, you buy into manufactured talking points but don't know WTF yer talking about.

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

not even close

Why do you think people get caught in "pre-existing condition" situations? Did you plan on Bells Palsey?

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Jack78

As expected, you buy into manufactured talking points but don't know WTF yer talking about.

oh jack, please let be benefit from your vast knowledge

[Jack78]

Originally Posted by tuff bob

oh jack, please let be benefit from your vast knowledge

It w/b wasted on you. You buy into a relatively small segment of the problem that's been intentionally blown out of proportion by pubs (cuz tha's the tactic they're left with) relative to the primary set of problems .... and yer gladly suckered in and happy to repeat it.

[tuff bob]

Originally Posted by Jack78

It w/b wasted on you.

quitter.