My Take On the Election Results From Last Night..

[irishmick79]

The republicans are still going to need to buckle down and choose which brand of conservatism they want to run with, though. They could split the republican vote in a lot of places if they follow the course they took in Ny-23.

[Bob Sakimano]

Originally Posted by irishmick79

The republicans are still going to need to buckle down and choose which brand of conservatism they want to run with, though. They could split the republican vote in a lot of places if they follow the course they took in Ny-23.

agree...

the more moderate, mainstream, bigger tent republican establishment will need to decide if they're going to let the extremists like Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, et al speak for them...

until the more rational republicans stand up to the hate radio types, they can expect more losses like NY-23

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by irishmick79

The republicans are still going to need to buckle down and choose which brand of conservatism they want to run with, though. They could split the republican vote in a lot of places if they follow the course they took in Ny-23.

Not likely. The party has purged most of the RINOs especially in the House and they're not enough "conservatives" to threaten the Ladies From Maine.

[ricola]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

You don't think the compressed time frame, the dropping out of the GOP candidate and the RINO's endorsement of the Dem had anything to do with it?

How well do you think the Dem would have done on a 2 candidate ballot?

Nope. Don't think it had anything to do with it. I think mainstream America doesn't like conservatives.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by ricola

Nope. Don't think it had anything to do it. I think mainstream America doesn't like conservatives.

False. There is still plenty of support for actual conservative values, especially smaller government and fiscal responsibility. It's the far-right wing of the Republican Party that mainstream America doesn't like.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by ricola

Nope. Don't think it had anything to do it. I think mainstream America doesn't like conservatives.

“Conservatives� Are Single-Largest Ideological Group

PRINCETON, NJ -- Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s.

[Bob Sakimano]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

False. There is still plenty of support for actual conservative values, especially smaller government and fiscal responsibility. It's the far-right wing of the Republican Party that mainstream America doesn't like.

correct..

but, unfortunately for the mainstream republicans, it's the "far right wing of the republican party" (as you stated) that have the microphones and TV audiences.

[ricola]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

“Conservatives� Are Single-Largest Ideological Group

PRINCETON, NJ -- Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s.

Uh huh Strangelove. You can show me polls and I'll show you election results. The fact is conservatives lost a seat they've held for a century. America does not believe in what they have to offer
.For good reason.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by ricola

Uh huh Strangelove. You can show me polls and I'll show you election results. The fact is conservatives lost a seat they've held for a century. America does not believe in what they have to offer
.For good reason.

Not only are you confusing conservatives with the Republican Party, but your logic would be faulty even if the two were one and the same considering New Jersey and Virginia just elected Republican governors. Are New Jersey and Virginia not part of America?

That being said, conservatives are not equal to Republicans. There are true conservatives in the Republican Party. There are conservative independents. Hell, there are conservatives in the Democratic Party ("Blue Dogs".)

[ricola]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

Not only are you confusing conservatives with the Republican Party, but your logic would be faulty even if the two were one and the same considering New Jersey and Virginia just elected Republican governors. Are New Jersey and Virginia not part of America?

That being said, conservatives are not equal to Republicans. There are true conservatives in the Republican Party. There are conservative independents. Hell, there are conservatives in the Democratic Party ("Blue Dogs".)

Hoffman was running under the banner of the conservative party. He was espousing true "conservative values", he was supported by Limbaugh and Palin. He got smoked. Where is the confusion here.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by ricola

Hoffman was running under the banner of the conservative party. He was espousing true "conservative values", he was supported by Limbaugh and Palin. He got smoked. Where is the confusion here.

He represented the "far right" that I mentioned earlier in the thread. That "far right" does not represent real conservatives, regardless of what he calls his party. Look beyond the name. Hell, W. considered himself a conservative and as our rapidly increasing national debt showed during his presidency, he was hardly a conservative.

Also, 49% to 46% is hardly getting smoked.

[ricola]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

He represented the "far right" that I mentioned earlier in the thread. That "far right" does not represent real conservatives, regardless of what he calls his party. Look beyond the name. Hell, W. considered himself a conservative and as our rapidly increasing national debt showed during his presidency, he was hardly a conservative.

Also, 49% to 46% is hardly getting smoked.

In an area that has voted republican since MAC was founded, I call that getting smoked. What exactly made him far right? When I hear far right I think of neo nazis. I wouldn't consider this guy that. I think he's a pure Conservative.....Who got smoked.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by ricola

In an area that has voted republican since MAC was founded, I call that getting smoked. What exactly made him far right? When I hear far right I think of neo nazis. I wouldn't consider this guy that. I think he's a pure Conservative.....Who got smoked.

This is very far-right. This screams of the evangelistic wing that has taken the Republican Party from traditional conservatism to wanting to legislate morality.

Religion | Conservative Party of New York State

[richwig]

No one has mentioned the obvious and essential point: Off-year elections tend to attract the most motivated voters, especially if it's a special election. The gov races in VA and NJ may be a fair representation on the electorate, but the NY 23rd is a different matter.

There were so many twists and turns in the 23rd so that I think it's really hard to tease out some sense of a single coherent "message" sent by the voters. If it had been a two way race between the Dem and Rep nominees, I bet the Rep would've won.

Introducing incredible out-of-state attention and money from far right wing leaders just confuses matters no end. You get the motivated wing nuts to turn out, but I bet a lot of the folks who voted for the Dem do not like carpetbaggers that had never heard of that district until now storming into their district. The Conservative didn't know local issues and didn't even live in the district.

[ricola]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

This is very far-right. This screams of the evangelistic wing that has taken the Republican Party from traditional conservatism to wanting to legislate morality.

Religion | Conservative Party of New York State

Ok I read it. That is pretty far right.
This election has convinced me that the republican party is going to splinter.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

He represented the "far right" that I mentioned earlier in the thread. That "far right" does not represent real conservatives, regardless of what he calls his party. Look beyond the name. Hell, W. considered himself a conservative and as our rapidly increasing national debt showed during his presidency, he was hardly a conservative.

Also, 49% to 46% is hardly getting smoked.

This doesn't matter. The farr ight wing is the face of the current republican party and that is disastrous if you are in that party. They lost that seat for now because of this fanaticism. It's unbelievable that they would go to this extent to try and get their out of the mainstream agenda elected.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by MSchott

This doesn't matter. The farr ight wing is the face of the current republican party and that is disastrous if you are in that party. They lost that seat for now because of this fanaticism. It's unbelievable that they would go to this extent to try and get their out of the mainstream agenda elected.

Well yeah, but I'm also saying that the far-right wing also isn't indicative of true conservativism, regardless of whether true conservatives consider themselves Democrats, Republicans, Libertarian, Independent, etc.

[Gotham_Spartan]

Originally Posted by MSchott

This doesn't matter. The farr ight wing is the face of the current republican party and that is disastrous if you are in that party. They lost that seat for now because of this fanaticism. It's unbelievable that they would go to this extent to try and get their out of the mainstream agenda elected.

What is more, the right wing turns out in disproportionate numbers in the primaries, so the candidates of the party tend to be right of its center, which makes them very, very right of the nation's center.

Rather be correct than rightly yours,

[Seth Galifianakis]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

He represented the "far right" that I mentioned earlier in the thread. That "far right" does not represent real conservatives, regardless of what he calls his party. Look beyond the name. Hell, W. considered himself a conservative and as our rapidly increasing national debt showed during his presidency, he was hardly a conservative.

Also, 49% to 46% is hardly getting smoked.

What big name "conservatives" have actually lived up to conservative principles once elected? It seems like I've heard this same story about just about every politician who's ever called themselves conservative.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by Seth Galifianakis

What big name "conservatives" have actually lived up to conservative principles once elected? It seems like I've heard this same story about just about every politician who's ever called themselves conservative.

And therein lies the problem with the current Republican Party.

[Seth Galifianakis]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

And therein lies the problem with the current Republican Party.

Or maybe it's a big cop out and true conservatives don't really exist in practice.

[Tree Rat]

You really want to understand the "message" delivered yesterday?

It's not democrats OR republicans. It's neither. Whatever party in office is going to get voted out until they get their collective heads out of their butts and realize both parties are utter garbage. Start acting in the best interest of Americans, not these corrupt brainless parties which only suck in the weak.

[Gotham_Spartan]

Originally Posted by Tree Rat

You really want to understand the "message" delivered yesterday?

It's not democrats OR republicans. It's neither. Whatever party in office is going to get voted out until they get their collective heads out of their butts and realize both parties are utter garbage. Start acting in the best interest of Americans, not these corrupt brainless parties which only suck in the weak.

Exactly: The root of the problem is not the politicians, it's the voters. As more than one pundit has said, we get exactly the government we deserve. By and large, Americans grossly underestimate what their government costs and sincerely but stupidly believe they can have all the current services and pay less in taxes than they do today. This, of course, is an utterly irrational conclusion. Americans on average think that something like 24% of the federal budget goes to foreign aid, when it is in fact less than one percent, which is only one example of the voters' profound and profoundly dangerous ignorance of public sector fiscal realities, an ignorance so profound that it can only be classified as a willful self-delusion. They also by and large think their Social Security Benefits are coming from the money they paid in while they were working, when the system has never, ever worked that way and wasn't designed that way. Myth, however, especially when it fuels a self-righteous sense of entitlement can be powerful.

As a result, we take turns electing Democrats, who convince us we can have all the services we want (but don't really dare raise the taxes high enough to pay for them), and Republicans, who convince us we can have a less expensive government (but don't really dare reduce the services to bring expenses in line with income). Both are wrong, but we want to believe both are right, and so we are headed towards fiscal disaster because the only way both can be "right" is that we overspend until the whole system collapses from the weight of the debt.

More concerned by the day-ly yours,