| Wells Hall Off-topic Board Politics, Religion, and Social Issues. This board is your pulpit to preach to the masses (like the Wells Hall preacher) about everything from politics to religion. Please show RESPECT to your fellow Spartans. |
11-06-2009, 10:43 PM
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#351 (permalink)
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 #00 Idong Ibok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctspartan
Well, I don't think you want to play the numbers game because it will end badly for you if you're up against a Muslim.
You think there was a little rage in Iran when we shot down their airliner with 290 innocent people on board, including 66 kids? Or how about all the years of civilian "disappearances" at the hand of government SAVAK terrorists under the control of the US? Wanna sit down with an Iranian and do the counting?
How about the hospital we blew to smithereens in Sudan for no reason, killing a multitude of innocent people?
Or how about the Chinese embassy in Sudan we blew up and they didn't even get a "sorry"?
Maybe the hundreds of cruise missile attacks that have wiped out how many wedding parties in Iraq? Or the 125,000 Iraqi fatalities they've suffered since our "intevention"? That really makes us good Christians!
Of course, since if you're at the receiving end of a cruise missile it's hard to hear if the guy who pushed the button yelled "Glory to Jesus", it's gonna really make your case that we never do it explicitly "in the name of religion". How convenient. 
Oh wait, ooops. Reading the non MSM press, it turns out there actually are cells of "Christian believers" on their own form of jihad in the Middle East. Hmmm.
Not that any of this disproves the converse about Islamic terrorism, just that the numbers game is a slippery slope. And not that the Muslims don't have their own discussion boards with their misinformed blockheads like we've got here, saying the equivalent but opposite stuff about you and me. Hate and lies begets hate and counter-lies. |
Moral Equivalency. There's nothing like it.
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11-06-2009, 10:58 PM
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#352 (permalink)
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#82 Keshawn Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctspartan
Yes, two that have been highly publicized. Of all the "Christian" soldiers that flipped out and killed fellow soldiers, we hear little because it doesn't sell advertising space. But there's many more of those cases. Just dig around a lot of Fort Bragg and other KKK-like incidents that make for juicy reading if you trust your own filters rather than taking whatever pablum the MSM feeds you.
And too bad for Hasan he wasn't a Christian doing it in Afghanistan. He could have had General McChrystal do his cover-up and maybe get his fellow soldiers a bunch of Silver Stars! Not that any Christian soldiers might have "accidentally" fragged atheist Pat Tillman or anything. Nah, not possible. If Akbar had simply yelled "Praise be to Jesus" instead of "Allahu Akbar", his actions would have been totally justified.
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Did those crazy Christians kill in the name of God? That would be an important distinction.
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11-06-2009, 11:45 PM
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#353 (permalink)
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Can someone briefly summarize how the libs in this thread justify these killings?
Thanks.
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11-07-2009, 12:36 AM
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#354 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin
So is it your opinion that Islam is a religion of extreme violence, and one of it's main agendas is to convert or murder every single non-Muslim in the world?
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I like how you added "extreme" to the question...
Yes. If you've spent any time reading the Koran, Islam is a violent religion.
Stepping back from Koranic canon, I'd suggest you learn how Islam grew as a religion.
At the point of the sword.
The multiculti's prattle on about the crusades. Do you have even the most basic knowledge about the situation back then?
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(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-07-2009, 12:37 AM
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#355 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove
Moral Equivalency. There's nothing like it.
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Amen....
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(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-07-2009, 12:45 AM
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#356 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctspartan
Well, we're in total agreement except for the "certain group of people" part. I vehemently disagree with the logic of making the larger group responsible for the (anecdotal) actions of a tiny subset of nutjobs. You could use that logic to broad-brush any group, religious, ethnic, whatever and "prove" that the group is evil or whatever. False logic.
There are 5-6 million Muslims in this country. By statistics, they are one of the most law-abiding, peaceful "groups" in the US. Check the crime rate statistics. So what does one crazed psychiatrist who went off the deep end prove about the general Muslim population?
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I'm on board with protecting "innocent" Muslims.
Look, I'm from Toledo. And I played hockey for a year in Freiburg, Germany.
Perhaps you've missed the arrests in Toledo. Or the fact that three AQ cells were apprehended around Freiburg in the last two years.
I can say, definitively, that Islam was never a problem around Toedo for the past thirty years. I can also state definitively that I never once saw a woman in tHajib in Freiburg in 1991-92. Now, they're everywhere.
Feeling their oats, my friend....whether you're willing to entertain the reality or not...demographics are a real bitch...
__________________
(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-07-2009, 12:51 AM
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#357 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanMF
Can someone briefly summarize how the libs in this thread justify these killings?
Thanks.
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Islam is a religion of peace.
Ignore the past 1300+ years where our civilization has been in conflict with Islamic civivlization.
The atheists abhor Christian thought (or any other religious representation), but will go to the grave defending radical Islam.
__________________
(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-07-2009, 01:48 AM
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#359 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cym Jim
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Don't you find it interesting that you and your fellow travellers bad-mouth organized religion of any color?
Excepting of course when Jihad runs wild.
Can't really understand that one...
Oh yeah...regarding the stereotype commentary. Prejudice. Pre-judge. Normal human gut level instinctual reaction. Not sure why that is humorous....read up on Burke. He said a lot on the subject.
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(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-07-2009, 02:02 AM
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#360 (permalink)
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Sparty
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I haven't read this whole thread (or really any of it, sorry) but isn't this guy in a coma and on a respirator sooooooo pretty much dead?? 
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11-07-2009, 02:11 AM
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#361 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksnvet
I haven't read this whole thread (or really any of it, sorry) but isn't this guy in a coma and on a respirator sooooooo pretty much dead?? |
Perhaps.
But this thread is the gold standard if you want to view Islamist apologists in their prime.
__________________
(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-07-2009, 02:40 AM
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#362 (permalink)
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Sparty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiserpete
Perhaps.
But this thread is the gold standard if you want to view Islamist apologists in their prime.
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Boy, I have a lot opinions on THAT subject but you guys scare me too much soooo no gracias. 
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11-07-2009, 02:50 AM
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#363 (permalink)
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 10,000+ posts |
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiserpete
Don't you find it interesting that you and your fellow travellers bad-mouth organized religion of any color?
Excepting of course when Jihad runs wild.
Can't really understand that one...
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Well I'm certainly happy to bad-mouth organized religion of any color - you all suck. For my quick glance - the arguments in this thread seem to be largely in line with that. Don't get sucked into Limbaugh's fantasy world of liberals hating jesus and loving allah - as you would say, you're better than that.
Quote:
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Oh yeah...regarding the stereotype commentary. Prejudice. Pre-judge. Normal human gut level instinctual reaction. Not sure why that is humorous....read up on Burke. He said a lot on the subject.
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 Dude - I'm an evolutionary biologist. Thankfully our understanding of how human societies fit into that paradigm have developed a little from Burke's simplistic and self-serving view.
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11-07-2009, 03:49 AM
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#364 (permalink)
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#23 Draymond Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiserpete
I like how you added "extreme" to the question...
Yes. If you've spent any time reading the Koran, Islam is a violent religion.
Stepping back from Koranic canon, I'd suggest you learn how Islam grew as a religion.
At the point of the sword.
The multiculti's prattle on about the crusades. Do you have even the most basic knowledge about the situation back then?
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This post is incredibly ignorant. Do you know about the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity over time? Rapes and murders during the Crusades. The Spanish Inquisition. During the middle ages Christianity and the sword went together because tolerance was nil. Yet nobody talks about those days because Christianity is culturally accepted. The Christian world is far from innocent in the annals of history.
The stereotyping of all Muslims in this thread is digusting, bigoted and incredibly ignorant. A vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving individuals who would rather live in peace with everyone else, regardless of differences in faith.
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11-07-2009, 10:59 AM
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#365 (permalink)
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#25 Blair White
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctspartan
Yes, two that have been highly publicized. Of all the "Christian" soldiers that flipped out and killed fellow soldiers, we hear little because it doesn't sell advertising space. But there's many more of those cases. Just dig around a lot of Fort Bragg and other KKK-like incidents that make for juicy reading if you trust your own filters rather than taking whatever pablum the MSM feeds you.
And too bad for Hasan he wasn't a Christian doing it in Afghanistan. He could have had General McChrystal do his cover-up and maybe get his fellow soldiers a bunch of Silver Stars! Not that any Christian soldiers might have "accidentally" fragged atheist Pat Tillman or anything. Nah, not possible. If Akbar had simply yelled "Praise be to Jesus" instead of "Allahu Akbar", his actions would have been totally justified.
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This is crazy. You will go to any lengths to defend this murderer. In both instances, this shooting and the grenade attack of Hasan Akbar, Islam played a factor. As unpleasant as it my seem to you it did. It is disgusting that you lump the friendly fire incident of Pat Tillman to the actions of Hasan and Akabar. Bottom line there are religous zealots that will kill, and carry out acts of violence aganist innocent people, but at the moment there are much Islamic extremist that are willing to and have carried out these acts than any other religous "cult".
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11-07-2009, 12:16 PM
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#366 (permalink)
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#3 B.J. Cunningham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Jack
This is crazy. You will go to any lengths to defend this murderer. In both instances, this shooting and the grenade attack of Hasan Akbar, Islam played a factor. As unpleasant as it my seem to you it did. It is disgusting that you lump the friendly fire incident of Pat Tillman to the actions of Hasan and Akabar. Bottom line there are religous zealots that will kill, and carry out acts of violence aganist innocent people, but at the moment there are much Islamic extremist that are willing to and have carried out these acts than any other religous "cult".
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Sorry, can you please give me the numbers on how many "acts" are carried out based on religious beliefs and from lack of them? Then tell me how many acts were sanctioned by the religious community in which the person belonged. I think you will find most criminal or insane actions have very little to do with Islam or Christianity.
If the actions don't match with the words then you have to question whether the person is really what he says he is. If a person sitting in the student section cheers for U of M and wears green and white you kinda got to think this is not normal. Thankfully people going nuts and hurting people is not normal.
If someone spits in your eye and says "I did that because I am a Christian" basically has disqualified him/herself, and it is an oxymoron statement.
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Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. ....great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause.. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition. BARACK OBAMA
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11-07-2009, 12:25 PM
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#367 (permalink)
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no one is defending the guy
but you can't go round up the muslims and kill them all
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Well...................we're waiting!
DantonIzzo did not attend Michigan State University.
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11-07-2009, 03:21 PM
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#368 (permalink)
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#00 Idong Ibok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown
This post is incredibly ignorant. Do you know about the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity over time? Rapes and murders during the Crusades. The Spanish Inquisition. During the middle ages Christianity and the sword went together because tolerance was nil. Yet nobody talks about those days because Christianity is culturally accepted. The Christian world is far from innocent in the annals of history.
The stereotyping of all Muslims in this thread is digusting, bigoted and incredibly ignorant. A vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving individuals who would rather live in peace with everyone else, regardless of differences in faith.
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Isn't there some sort of statute of limitations on those?
Live in the now. Besides the Arabs kicked ass during the Crusades - the West only won the first one.
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11-07-2009, 08:13 PM
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#369 (permalink)
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#25 Blair White
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctspartan
Well, I don't think you want to play the numbers game because it will end badly for you if you're up against a Muslim.
You think there was a little rage in Iran when we shot down their airliner with 290 innocent people on board, including 66 kids? Or how about all the years of civilian "disappearances" at the hand of government SAVAK terrorists under the control of the US? Wanna sit down with an Iranian and do the counting?
How about the hospital we blew to smithereens in Sudan for no reason, killing a multitude of innocent people?
Or how about the Chinese embassy in Sudan we blew up and they didn't even get a "sorry"?
Maybe the hundreds of cruise missile attacks that have wiped out how many wedding parties in Iraq? Or the 125,000 Iraqi fatalities they've suffered since our "intevention"? That really makes us good Christians!
Of course, since if you're at the receiving end of a cruise missile it's hard to hear if the guy who pushed the button yelled "Glory to Jesus", it's gonna really make your case that we never do it explicitly "in the name of religion". How convenient.
Oh wait, ooops. Reading the non MSM press, it turns out there actually are cells of "Christian believers" on their own form of jihad in the Middle East. Hmmm.
Not that any of this disproves the converse about Islamic terrorism, just that the numbers game is a slippery slope. And not that the Muslims don't have their own discussion boards with their misinformed blockheads like we've got here, saying the equivalent but opposite stuff about you and me. Hate and lies begets hate and counter-lies. |
Unbelieveable. The actions of the US are not designed specifically to kill Muslims, like you would like to lead this conversation. This shooting, the beheadings, the bombings, the suicide attacks were DELIBERATE ATTACKS in the name of jihad and or radical Islam. Radical Islam is the culprit not all muslims. ( now cue " I have a friend that is a muslim" - which I do have).
Keep on reaching.
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11-07-2009, 11:59 PM
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#370 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksnvet
Boy, I have a lot opinions on THAT subject but you guys scare me too much soooo no gracias. |
So let us hear your opinions.
Cowardice???
__________________
(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-08-2009, 12:25 AM
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#371 (permalink)
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Dan Enos
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What would you know about cowardice Kaiserpete? You know it when you think you see it from afar?
Here's the deal as we know it so far. A single Muslim raised in the US by immigrant parents. He goes to med school in DoD dime. He never marries and according to many accounts he doesn't adjust well to losing both parents. Gets poor reviews and yet the Army is going to still send him off to Iraq to counsel others. He retreats to his religion and finally goes off the edge.
If he'd been a Roman Catholic like Charles Whitman would you be ready to round up all the Catholics too?
We may find out this guy was another shoe bomber type who was more successful in killing but right now you are dealing in pure speculation.
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11-08-2009, 12:51 AM
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#372 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRR Spartan
What would you know about cowardice Kaiserpete? You know it when you think you see it from afar?
Here's the deal as we know it so far. A single Muslim raised in the US by immigrant parents. He goes to med school in DoD dime. He never marries and according to many accounts he doesn't adjust well to losing both parents. Gets poor reviews and yet the Army is going to still send him off to Iraq to counsel others. He retreats to his religion and finally goes off the edge.
If he'd been a Roman Catholic like Charles Whitman would you be ready to round up all the Catholics too?
We may find out this guy was another shoe bomber type who was more successful in killing but right now you are dealing in pure speculation.
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The whole "Allahu Akbar" proclamation renders any of your jibberish irrelevant...
__________________
(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-08-2009, 12:54 AM
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#373 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninowesco
no one is defending the guy
but you can't go round up the muslims and kill them all
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Actually, there are a lot of people defending him in a roundabout way. Christians were horrific seven or eight centuries ago. Ergo, this guy isn't really so bad...blah blah blah...
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(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-08-2009, 01:18 AM
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#374 (permalink)
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Mark Hollis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown
This post is incredibly ignorant. Do you know about the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity over time? Rapes and murders during the Crusades. The Spanish Inquisition. During the middle ages Christianity and the sword went together because tolerance was nil. Yet nobody talks about those days because Christianity is culturally accepted. The Christian world is far from innocent in the annals of history.
The stereotyping of all Muslims in this thread is digusting, bigoted and incredibly ignorant. A vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving individuals who would rather live in peace with everyone else, regardless of differences in faith.
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My post/argument is ignorant?
What is ignorant about it? Islam grew as a religion at the point of the sword. Pretty much any historian with a shred of respectability would acknowledge this statement.
You can list all the horrors of Christianity that occurred in the 13th to 17th centuries. I'd readily agree with you.
But the 21st century is a bit different...don't you think???
Yes, the Spanish Inquisition was horrible. But how many centuries ago did that occur?
And let's go back to your Muslim friends...If they're as horrified as you claim them to be, their SILENCE on the global stage as **** gets blown up from Tanzania, Kenya, Turkey, Mumbai, Tunisia, Beslaun, Algeria, London, Paris, Moscow, Madrid, Bali etc. is a bit telling...don't you think? I'm only mentioning where tIslamists were successful. Otherwise the list grows dramatically...
I'm a practicing Catholic...and if co-religionists perpetrated a single act of terror in my religion's name, I'd be leading the organization to stop their bull**** ASAP.
Whether you're willing to admit it or not, I'm not lumping one billion devotees as one. But I am saying something is wrong with the religion, today, now in 2009.
And regardless of what Christians did five, eight or twelve centuries ago...civilization is confronting the barbarism of political Islam right now, today....
Sorry if this intrudes on your PC existence...
__________________
(In Europe) The coming decade will witness the war between the values of Islam and the secular “values” of the decadent, hedonistic post-Marxist Left. We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, last November’s prelude to the French civil war, the Danish cartoon case. This is just the beginning of the beginning. I do not consider myself a pessimist, merely a realist. It is quite clear who is going to lose – and whose fault that will be. - Paul Belien 022206
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11-08-2009, 03:21 AM
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#375 (permalink)
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#15 Durrell Summers
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