Mass Shooting at Fort Hood - 13 dead / shooter alive

[Colonel Forbin]

Originally Posted by Bart Rosenver

Essentially, yes.

Who poses more of a threat to you - a muslim of unknown ideology or a mormon?

I dunno, if I were to visit the home of either one, and since both abhor booze..... tossup?

[Ybob]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

Just as much as Christianity and Judaism are.

It's funny when people try to defend "Jihad" by claiming that Christianity and Judaism are anything like the current state of Islam. In theory, Islam is a peaceful religion just like any other religion.

Islam is home to extreme terrorists with ridiculous infrastructure that spans throughout the Islamic community. In fact, it's so vast that we train highly talented individuals and spend crazy amounts of money to investigate it across numerous government agencies.

Homeland Security was created to link together over 100 agencies to increase communication to prevent another 9/11. Anyone that can speak Farsi fluently is almost guaranteed to be contacted by any of these agencies. They will recruit you and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to train you... if you are a fluent Farsi speaker. Hmmm... why is that? Why would the FBI, DEA, ATF, NSA, CIA, etc. contact you and give you a shot at working for anyone of these extremely selective agencies? I'm sure it's because Islam is such a peaceful religion. I'm sure it's because nobody is worried about the next terrorist attack.

It's wrong to generalize an entire religion but it's also naive to act like Islam is just some peaceful religion. For some reason our government's national defense would disagree.

[Bart Rosenver]

Originally Posted by Green Cheesiest™

So....when should we lock up all practicing Muslims? Thoughts? Because you are being very discriminatory.

Neither pose a threat....but one does to you because you ASSUME you know what they are about.

The answer is easy. Statistically speaking, the muslim poses more of a threat. Gotta play the percentages.

There is no easy answer in a free (and increasingly PC) society. The very reaction you have to my statements allows people to move here and then plot attacks against US citizens from inside our borders.

I am not anti-Muslim for the record but if I were in charge of things, I would keep a closer eye on Muslims than I would Quakers. That is all I am sayin.

[Colonel Forbin]

Originally Posted by Ybob

It's funny when people try to defend "Jihad" by claiming that Christianity and Judaism are anything like the current state of Islam. In theory, Islam is a peaceful religion just like any other religion.

Islam is home to extreme terrorists with ridiculous infrastructure that spans throughout the Islamic community. In fact, it's so vast that we train highly talented individuals and spend crazy amounts of money to investigate it across numerous government agencies.

Homeland Security was created to link together over 100 agencies to increase communication to prevent another 9/11. Anyone that can speak Farsi fluently is almost guaranteed to be contacted by any of these agencies. They will recruit you and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to train you... if you are a fluent Farsi speaker. Hmmm... why is that? Why would the FBI, DEA, ATF, NSA, CIA, etc. contact you and give you a shot at working for anyone of these extremely selective agencies? I'm sure it's because Islam is such a peaceful religion. I'm sure it's because nobody is worried about the next terrorist attack.

It's wrong to generalize an entire religion but it's also naive to act like Islam is just some peaceful religion. For some reason our government's national defense would disagree.

So if Islam isn't a peaceful religion, what is it exactly?

Some people with effed up ideals have hijacked that religion the same way the KKK hijacked Christianity. Both are people who are using religion to get their opinions and ideals put in place.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by Bart Rosenver

The answer is easy. Statistically speaking, the muslim poses more of a threat. Gotta play the percentages.

There is no easy answer in a free (and increasingly PC) society. The very reaction you have to my statements allows people to move here and then plot attacks against US citizens from inside our borders.

I am not anti-Muslim for the record but if I were in charge of things, I would keep a closer eye on Muslims than I would Quakers. That is all I am sayin.

Based on your responses in this thread, you sound very anti-Muslim.

[The Toll Spartan]

I don't get the taking sides on this thing. Soldiers got killed and I'm on their side, I appreciate what they do and I let them know that when I fly with them.

Yes, this Major's name isn't Anglo. Yes some Muslim's like to kill Americans, especially American soldiers.

It's stupid to supress the name and it's also stupid to speculate on the reason for this. If he went crazy or was on some jihad, it doesn't matter, people are dead. Families are mourning. To try to downplay it or play it up at this point is really just insensitive. And yes the RCMB can be stupid and it can be this supposed free speech area but, that doesn't make it right at the moment.

There'll be plenty of things to argue about later on.

[LanCity]

Originally Posted by Bart Rosenver

The answer is easy. Statistically speaking, the muslim poses more of a threat. Gotta play the percentages.

There is no easy answer in a free (and increasingly PC) society. The very reaction you have to my statements allows people to move here and then plot attacks against US citizens from inside our borders.

I am not anti-Muslim for the record but if I were in charge of things, I would keep a closer eye on Muslims than I would Quakers. That is all I am sayin.

the christians are fightin' their asses off and the muslims are blowin' em up!

[Spartman]

Originally Posted by The Armchair Quarterback

Fox News saying possible inside mole attack by taliban

It's inconceivable that this could have been an act of Jihad. If fact, Jihad should not even be considered as a motive because that would be so illogical.

[GRR Spartan]

The US Army really needed this to be Joe Smith flipping out. What a nightmare on so many fronts.

For any news organization to speculate is really not responsible. Let everyone draw their own conclusions until all the agencies get done with their due diligence.

[Spartan Colonel Angus]

Originally Posted by LanCity

the christians are fightin' their asses off and the muslims are blowin' em up!

Too soon.

[Bart Rosenver]

Originally Posted by Ybob

It's funny when people try to defend "Jihad" by claiming that Christianity and Judaism are anything like the current state of Islam. In theory, Islam is a peaceful religion just like any other religion.

Islam is home to extreme terrorists with ridiculous infrastructure that spans throughout the Islamic community. In fact, it's so vast that we train highly talented individuals and spend crazy amounts of money to investigate it across numerous government agencies.

Homeland Security was created to link together over 100 agencies to increase communication to prevent another 9/11. Anyone that can speak Farsi fluently is almost guaranteed to be contacted by any of these agencies. They will recruit you and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to train you... if you are a fluent Farsi speaker. Hmmm... why is that? Why would the FBI, DEA, ATF, NSA, CIA, etc. contact you and give you a shot at working for anyone of these extremely selective agencies? I'm sure it's because Islam is such a peaceful religion. I'm sure it's because nobody is worried about the next terrorist attack.

It's wrong to generalize an entire religion but it's also naive to act like Islam is just some peaceful religion. For some reason our government's national defense would disagree.

This was an excellent post that is much more balanced than the crap I have been spewing. I am taking an extreme view to prove a point. I do think the fact that we were all raised on "we are the world" works against us in this regard. The muslim extremists count on our naivete. It creates space for them in which to maneuver.

There is not a very loud moderate muslim voice against terrorism because though I believe many muslims may not condone the means, they have support (or at least sympathy) for the ends.

Just my personal view. nothing more.

[Ybob]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

So if Islam isn't a peaceful religion, what is it exactly?

Some people with effed up ideals have hijacked that religion the same way the KKK hijacked Christianity. Both are people who are using religion to get their opinions and ideals put in place.

The KKK has about .01% the infrastructure that, oh say, Hamas has. You can take a pick of any of the major terrorist groups. The Aryan Nation is bigger than the KKK.

Those groups would act on their thoughts much more if they could. They can't though. The US isn't nearly as corrupt as Iran or any other Muslim nation. They can't get the support of the government and impose their will. They can't inflict their hate by having members in congress, the senate, doctors at hospitals, in the various levels of law enforcement, etc. They can't penetrate those areas on the same level.

It's disrespectful to compare any of the major terrorist networks to the KKK. That would just be insulting to "them there terrorists". They've worked too hard to be compared to such morons.

[Bart Rosenver]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

Based on your responses in this thread, you sound very anti-Muslim.

not anti-muslim just pro-reality.

I refuse to adopt the standard party line because the alternative makes me uncomfortable. I am not a "these colors don't run" bigot either. Just a regular guy who based upon balanced research and reading, from multiple sides of the issue, has developed an opinion that the muslim community, by and large, does not do a sufficient job of self-policing and harbors those who at the very least tacitly support attacks on US interests.

Is this the part of my denial where I should mention that I have a few Muslim friends?

[LanCity]

Originally Posted by Bart Rosenver

This was an excellent post that is much more balanced than the crap I have been spewing. I am taking an extreme view to prove a point. I do think the fact that we were all raised on "we are the world" works against us in this regard. The muslim extremists count on our naivete. It creates space for them in which to maneuver.

There is not a very loud moderate muslim voice against terrorism because though I believe many muslims may not condone the means, they have support (or at least sympathy) for the ends.

Just my personal view. nothing more.

i heard someone say someplace some time ago that you won't see the influential muslims come out against muslim violence because they don't believe that what the jihadists are qualifies as actual islam... and that coming out against it would somehow validate that they are associated in a loose form with a more radical islam... might be crap but also might explain something

[Ybob]

The guy was a graduate of Virginia Tech? What the hell are they putting in the water down there?

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by GRR Spartan

The US Army really needed this to be Joe Smith flipping out. What a nightmare on so many fronts.

For any news organization to speculate is really not rsponsible. Let everyone draw their own conclusions until all the agencies get done with their due diligence.

This is what I'm worried about. Considering that a lot of people irrationally automatically equate Muslims or anyone with a name that they believe "sounds Muslim" as a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer, this is the worst thing that could happen from a cultural and/or interfaith relations standpoint. There's already too much bigotry and intolerance in the world and unfortunately many of those people will try and use this as fuel, no matter what investigation reveals.

[Venice Spartan]

Originally Posted by Bart Rosenver

Obviously not enough considering today's events. I bet there are 11 families who wish we got at least one more.

serious reply
1. you make a somewhat valid point. I would argue that America has not indiscriminately targeted muslims and certainly has not targeted civilians.

2. less than 20 abortion docs? (just guessing). I don't support killing in the name of any religion or extremism of any sort. I would guess there are not schools and congregations which teach/celebrate/support this type of activity. Killing in the name of Islam seems to be far more institutionalized and therefore more nefarious.

1 American soldiers have certainly targeted civilians and been prosecuted for it

2 There are congregations who preach killing abortion docs, like the one trying to raise money on E-Bay

[Spartman]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

So if Islam isn't a peaceful religion, what is it exactly?

Some people with effed up ideals have hijacked that religion the same way the KKK hijacked Christianity. Both are people who are using religion to get their opinions and ideals put in place.

This is one of the most uneducated statements I've ever read. Have you not read the Sira, the biography of Muhammad, or the Hadiths, the teachings of Muhammad?
Evidently not because if you had you would know the Taliban and Al Qaeda are fundamental islamists, with fundamental meaning they follow the above while the so called moderate muslims do not follow the example and teachings of Muhammad, at least not concerning the killing of non-muslims etc. Tragically, as much as those of us who believe in the golden rule want to believe to the contrary, there is nothing hijacked by the Al Qaeda and other muslim terrorists when it comes to Islam.

[Bart Rosenver]

Originally Posted by LanCity

i heard someone say someplace some time ago that you won't see the influential muslims come out against muslim violence because they don't believe that what the jihadists are qualifies as actual islam... and that coming out against it would somehow validate that they are associated in a loose form with a more radical islam... might be crap but also might explain something

If someone blew up two buildings in NYC wearing a Michigan State sweatshirt and hat, I would definitely speak out against this act.

One, because this would be a clear case of double-billing (not acceptable unless the attack coincided with a Spartan game) but more importantly, because I would want to publicly refute this person as a true Spartan and defend the honor and integrity of the rest of the alumni base.

Granted a dumb example, but I think I am making a point in there somewhere.

[Yakispartan]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

This is what I'm worried about. Considering that a lot of people irrationally automatically equate Muslims or anyone with a name that they believe "sounds Muslim" as a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer, this is the worst thing that could happen from a cultural and/or interfaith relations standpoint. There's already too much bigotry and intolerance in the world and unfortunately many of those people will try and use this as fuel, no matter what investigation reveals.

Read about the history of Islam and get back to us. Oh, and please read with an open mind.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by Yakispartan

Read about the history of Islam and get back to us. Oh, and please read with an open mind.

Oh great Scholar of Islam, please prove to all of us that every Muslim is a terrorist.

[Bart Rosenver]

Originally Posted by Venice Spartan

1 American soldiers have certainly targeted civilians and been prosecuted for it

2 There are congregations who preach killing abortion docs, like the one trying to raise money on E-Bay

1 or 2 examples is far less compelling than a network designed to do the same.

The fact of the matter is faith-based killings are a rarity in America and at odds with western ideology in general. This is not the case with respect to the Arab/Muslim world.

You can sing cumbaya and pretend this doesn't exist or you can choose to be realistic. I choose reality.

[SpartyOnInChitown]

Originally Posted by Bart Rosenver

1 or 2 examples is far less compelling than a network designed to do the same.

The fact of the matter is faith-based killings are a rarity in America and at odds with western ideology in general. This is not the case with respect to the Arab/Muslim world.

You can sing cumbaya and pretend this doesn't exist or you can choose to be realistic. I choose reality.

There's a huge difference between acknowledging there are extremists who commit terrorist acts in the name of Islam and stereotyping all Muslims as terrorists.

[Ybob]

I have to admit, if I was brainwashed into believing that I'd get 72 virgins when I die, I might eventually go crazy and kill some SOBs.

I mean, 72 virgins? Of my choosing? Hmmmm... all of eternity? That sounds ****ing sweet... a little bloody... but I'm game. I hear there are some students in EL that know how to make bombs. Hmm...

[Yakispartan]

Originally Posted by SpartyOnInChitown

Oh great Scholar of Islam, please prove to all of us that every Muslim is a terrorist.

I won't impose my personal views about Islam on you or this forum. Just read up and bit. You have, right?