Support GM And Buy Their Cars

[Bullwrinkle]

And don't worry if your taxpayer bailout dollars are used to operate GM's European Opel Division. Remember - buy American, not those damn furrin cars.

GM boss: US aid can be used to fix Opel if needed - Yahoo! Finance

[Bullwrinkle]

For years I tried to explain to the Big 3 Apologist neanderthals among us that all the auto companies are global and to try and claim which is "foreign" and which is "domestic" is absurd.

Now GM proves this point once and for all, with our taxpayer dollars, and shockingly - not a peep from the "Buy American" crowd.

[ninowesco]

real winner of a thread

lots of action

[Bullwrinkle]

Originally Posted by ninowesco

real winner of a thread

lots of action

I guess there is no point in even attempting to argue this one.

[Colonel Forbin]

I don't agree with this move, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across. I don't think that anyone has ever said that 100% of every single penny in GM, Ford or Chrysler go to Americans, nor have they said that the same is true for other manufacturers. Are all auto companies global? Sure. But when a much larger percentage of money is spent and goes into the US versus other countries, that does make them more "American" than others. You constantly cite where a vehicle is produced, which is fine. But R&D is a different story, and you don't seem to want to ever talk about that.

I think what's a little bit more disconcerting to me is your utter and absolute refusal to give credit to GM for a single product, Bullwrinkle. But prove me wrong - tell me which vehicles GM puts out that you think are segment leaders or at least equal to their competition. You call me an apologist and a neanderthal, but on the same token, you refuse to admit that GM has ever done a single thing right in the last 30 years.

I'm really getting off point here. I don't agree with this move, but are you really trying to say that all car companies are equally global in their scope, and that their profits are pretty much evenly split across the world?

[Enrico Palazzo]

screw the American workers to make a political statment.

sincerely,
conservatives

I find rather ironic that for years it the labor and the left who was the "buy American" crowd, now it's suddenly the right who has advocated for and supported the massive tax breaks given to foreign companies like Nissan and Toyota for plants in the South (they're red so that makes it ok apparently).

[ninowesco]

Originally Posted by Bullwrinkle

I guess there is no point in even attempting to argue this one.

what are you even arguing

I drive a Toyota and work in a different industry

[Seth Galifianakis]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

I don't agree with this move, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across. I don't think that anyone has ever said that 100% of every single penny in GM, Ford or Chrysler go to Americans, nor have they said that the same is true for other manufacturers. Are all auto companies global? Sure. But when a much larger percentage of money is spent and goes into the US versus other countries, that does make them more "American" than others. You constantly cite where a vehicle is produced, which is fine. But R&D is a different story, and you don't seem to want to ever talk about that.

I think what's a little bit more disconcerting to me is your utter and absolute refusal to give credit to GM for a single product, Bullwrinkle. But prove me wrong - tell me which vehicles GM puts out that you think are segment leaders or at least equal to their competition. You call me an apologist and a neanderthal, but on the same token, you refuse to admit that GM has ever done a single thing right in the last 30 years.

I'm really getting off point here. I don't agree with this move, but are you really trying to say that all car companies are equally global in their scope, and that their profits are pretty much evenly split across the world?

Understanding nuance has never been the strong suit of this crowd.

[Voodoo76]

I realize this is just a troll thread. But It never ceases to amaze me how many people in an automotive state don't understand the concept and impact of allocation of corporate expenses. And how overseas operations by GM, Ford, even Chrysler support thier own communty. Of all the places on earth SE Michigan residents should understand this.

Especially for your community, It ain't about where the vehicle is built.

[Bullwrinkle]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

I don't agree with this move, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across. I don't think that anyone has ever said that 100% of every single penny in GM, Ford or Chrysler go to Americans, nor have they said that the same is true for other manufacturers. Are all auto companies global? Sure. But when a much larger percentage of money is spent and goes into the US versus other countries, that does make them more "American" than others. You constantly cite where a vehicle is produced, which is fine. But R&D is a different story, and you don't seem to want to ever talk about that.

I think what's a little bit more disconcerting to me is your utter and absolute refusal to give credit to GM for a single product, Bullwrinkle. But prove me wrong - tell me which vehicles GM puts out that you think are segment leaders or at least equal to their competition. You call me an apologist and a neanderthal, but on the same token, you refuse to admit that GM has ever done a single thing right in the last 30 years.

I'm really getting off point here. I don't agree with this move, but are you really trying to say that all car companies are equally global in their scope, and that their profits are pretty much evenly split across the world?

Congrats on an entire post without mentioning Toyota frame rails.

Which GM products do I like? - Lots of them. In fact I think the Cadillac line up is outstanding.

Nice to see you changing your tune. Now you admit that auto companies are global. That it isn't a question of "Buy American" anymore. Now you claim it's "Buy more American than the other company". As if a consumer can really know where the R&D is being done, where the parts are actually sourced etc... What they can know for sure is if AMERICAN workers put the damn thing together, or if Mexicans or Belgians put it together.

So answer me this Kernel - if GM decides to import one of them thar Opels - rebadge it and call it a Chevy, even though it was built and designed and sourced in Europe - should I still buy that "More American Car" instead of some "Less American" Honda built in Ohio?

[Three Putt Par]

GM can build and sell cars wherever they want, it's their right to do so. However, when taxpayer money gets throw into the mix, they should spend that money in the US only.

[ninowesco]

big companies have global operations

they can't ignore that portion of the business if they are trying to strengthen the company

anyone who thinks otherwise is blind

[Bullwrinkle]

Originally Posted by Voodoo76

I realize this is just a troll thread. But It never ceases to amaze me how many people in an automotive state don't understand the concept and impact of allocation of corporate expenses. And how overseas operations by GM, Ford, even Chrysler support thier own communty. Of all the places on earth SE Michigan residents should understand this.

Especially for your community, It ain't about where the vehicle is built.

So Honda employing thousands of workers at their plants in Ohio - really doesn't support the local community there - but GM pouring taxpayer dollars to keep Opel plants open in Germany does?

Gotcha - It's just amazing that people can't understand this simple concept.

[ninowesco]

Originally Posted by Bullwrinkle

So Honda employing thousands of workers at their plants in Ohio - really doesn't support the local community there - but GM pouring taxpayer dollars to keep Opel plants open in Germany does?

Gotcha - It's just amazing that people can't understand this simple concept.

I think the point is that the big wigs live in Bloomfied Hills vs Tokyo

and the engineers live all over mighigan instead of japan

it's not hard to understand if you think about it for a minute

American companies clearly produce more high paying jobs in the US than japanese companies do

[Voodoo76]

Originally Posted by ninowesco

I think the point is that the big wigs live in Bloomfied Hills vs Tokyo

and the engineers live all over mighigan instead of japan

it's not hard to understand if you think about it for a minute

American companies clearly produce more high paying jobs in the US than japanese companies do

Exactly. And it never ceases to amaze me how many people in the state of Michigan of all places fail to grasp this. Go to Warren, or Auburn Hills or Dearborn. Then go visit Honda, or Nissan, or Toyota's Technical Centers in Japan. And it's not just the OEM facilites, but all the high paying Supplier jobs that build up around these centers. Why do you think Oakland County was once one of the richest in the US? Drive up I-75 and look out both windows.

Don't get me wrong, the Assy jobs are great for communities. And I hold no grudge against the transplant auto makers, I welcome them as customers. But it is a fact that a GM product made overseas does more for YOUR local economy than a Honda produced in Ohio. (Not mine as I was blown away).

[ricola]

Originally Posted by ninowesco

I think the point is that the big wigs live in Bloomfied Hills vs Tokyo

and the engineers live all over mighigan instead of japan

it's not hard to understand if you think about it for a minute

American companies clearly produce more high paying jobs in the US than japanese companies do

I don't think he does understand. He gets told the same things every time he starts one of these silly threads yet he keeps starting them. Someone that can't figure out that the couple of thousand jobs Honda provides does not outweigh the hundreds of thousands of jobs the domestic manufacturers provide can't understand much.

[Colonel Forbin]

Originally Posted by Bullwrinkle

Congrats on an entire post without mentioning Toyota frame rails.

Which GM products do I like? - Lots of them. In fact I think the Cadillac line up is outstanding.

Nice to see you changing your tune. Now you admit that auto companies are global. That it isn't a question of "Buy American" anymore. Now you claim it's "Buy more American than the other company". As if a consumer can really know where the R&D is being done, where the parts are actually sourced etc... What they can know for sure is if AMERICAN workers put the damn thing together, or if Mexicans or Belgians put it together.

So answer me this Kernel - if GM decides to import one of them thar Opels - rebadge it and call it a Chevy, even though it was built and designed and sourced in Europe - should I still buy that "More American Car" instead of some "Less American" Honda built in Ohio?

Well, a couple of things - one, you never answered my final question of do you think all auto companies are equally global in scope. Please answer it. Two, you know as well as I do that a vast majority of R&D work for the Big Three is done in the US, and in Japan for Toyota and Honda. Don't play naive about where the vast majority of R&D work is done. The Big Three spend billions on R&D here, and you know it. Toyota and Honda spend a far, far smaller amount here. Where the parts are sourced? It's on the window sticker my fine feathered friend. Though Japan plays that game much better than the Big Three do. Ship an engine over minus the manifolds, bolt on the manifolds and magically the engine becomes a US part because final assembly is done here, despite 95% of the parts coming from overseas. I'm certainly not changing my tune. I'd appreciate it if you'd change yours and have the decency to address me without a childish respelling of my name. It really makes your post seem a bit sophomorish in nature.

[Tree Rat]

Originally Posted by Bullwrinkle

I guess there is no point in even attempting to argue this one.

Can't argue stupid.

You win.

[Bullwrinkle]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

Well, a couple of things - one, you never answered my final question of do you think all auto companies are equally global in scope. Please answer it. Two, you know as well as I do that a vast majority of R&D work for the Big Three is done in the US, and in Japan for Toyota and Honda. Don't play naive about where the vast majority of R&D work is done. The Big Three spend billions on R&D here, and you know it. Toyota and Honda spend a far, far smaller amount here. Where the parts are sourced? It's on the window sticker my fine feathered friend. Though Japan plays that game much better than the Big Three do. Ship an engine over minus the manifolds, bolt on the manifolds and magically the engine becomes a US part because final assembly is done here, despite 95% of the parts coming from overseas. I'm certainly not changing my tune. I'd appreciate it if you'd change yours and have the decency to address me without a childish respelling of my name. It really makes your post seem a bit sophomorish in nature.

Except the vast majority of R&D work for GM Opel is done in Europe by Europeans. Would you like me to list for you all the GM, Ford and of course now Fiat/Chrysler R&D centers all over Europe that design those vehicles? To argue that buying one of those vehicles benefits the USA more than a transplant vehicle with parts sourced here and assembled by American workers is flat out ludicrous.

So when you finally admit that - maybe you'll get your name spelled right.

[Voodoo76]

Originally Posted by Bullwrinkle

Except the vast majority of R&D work for GM Opel is done in Europe by Europeans. Would you like me to list for you all the GM, Ford and of course now Fiat/Chrysler R&D centers all over Europe that design those vehicles? To argue that buying one of those vehicles benefits the USA more than a transplant vehicle with parts sourced here and assembled by American workers is flat out ludicrous.

So when you finally admit that - maybe you'll get your name spelled right.

Please do. And while you are at it, look at the size and scope at those satellite facilities. Do you know how much collaborative effort there is with newer global platforms? Regardless of location money and work still flows back the the parent company. And if you live in the state of Michigan that means GM, Ford and to some degree yet to be seen Chrysler. You living in Michigan benefit from this activity overseas.

[Colonel Forbin]

Originally Posted by Bullwrinkle

Except the vast majority of R&D work for GM Opel is done in Europe by Europeans. Would you like me to list for you all the GM, Ford and of course now Fiat/Chrysler R&D centers all over Europe that design those vehicles? To argue that buying one of those vehicles benefits the USA more than a transplant vehicle with parts sourced here and assembled by American workers is flat out ludicrous.

So when you finally admit that - maybe you'll get your name spelled right.

Keep talking about Opel like they hold equal water to Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick and GMC.

You still didn't answer the question, btw...

[Tree Rat]

Originally Posted by Bullwrinkle

Except the vast majority of R&D work for GM Opel is done in Europe by Europeans. Would you like me to list for you all the GM, Ford and of course now Fiat/Chrysler R&D centers all over Europe that design those vehicles? To argue that buying one of those vehicles benefits the USA more than a transplant vehicle with parts sourced here and assembled by American workers is flat out ludicrous.

So when you finally admit that - maybe you'll get your name spelled right.

And Opel is built and sold in Europe. Build and invest where you sell.

Not lie about currency like some nations to loot the value of a nation.

When history looks back at this time it will be noted that it's not corporations that caused this economic mess. It will be the national banks. Corporations react to the conditions presented to them.

I do not understand and will not salute any idiot that is proud of their unrestricted following of a political party. Some of you would climb to the top of the Empire State building if Pelosi, Obama or McCain muttered that command. But those same people mock anybody that has any slight nationalism in their purchases. You people are screwed up. You don't know where the problems are and it is in the political parties you support.

Ahhh schict, I'm arguing with an idiot. You win.

[Bullwrinkle]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

Keep talking about Opel like they hold equal water to Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick and GMC.

You still didn't answer the question, btw...

Sometimes I wonder why I bother with you Kernel. Opel sold 1.5 million units last year. How many Buicks were sold here? How many Caddy's?

So you never did respond to the subject at hand. How do you feel about your taxpayer bailout dollars going to support GM Opel to keep plants operating in Europe to keep building cars designed and sourced in Europe? Still OK with you since they are owned by GM?

Gotta go - I'm looking at a new Chevy Aveo, I wanna buy American, think that's a good choice?

[Bullwrinkle]

Originally Posted by Tree Rat

And Opel is built and sold in Europe. Build and invest where you sell.

Not lie about currency like some nations to loot the value of a nation.

When history looks back at this time it will be noted that it's not corporations that caused this economic mess. It will be the national banks. Corporations react to the conditions presented to them.

I do not understand and will not salute any idiot that is proud of their unrestricted following of a political party. Some of you would climb to the top of the Empire State building if Pelosi, Obama or McCain muttered that command. But those same people mock anybody that has any slight nationalism in their purchases. You people are screwed up. You don't know where the problems are and it is in the political parties you support.

Ahhh schict, I'm arguing with an idiot. You win.

I have no idea what your rant has to do with anything. My question was very basic, what do think of your taxpayer bailout dollars going to prop up GM Opel instead of being used here in the US? How hard is it to just answer the question?

[Bullwrinkle]

Originally Posted by Colonel Forbin

Well, a couple of things - one, you never answered my final question of do you think all auto companies are equally global in scope. Please answer it. Two, you know as well as I do that a vast majority of R&D work for the Big Three is done in the US, and in Japan for Toyota and Honda. Don't play naive about where the vast majority of R&D work is done. The Big Three spend billions on R&D here, and you know it. Toyota and Honda spend a far, far smaller amount here. Where the parts are sourced? It's on the window sticker my fine feathered friend. Though Japan plays that game much better than the Big Three do. Ship an engine over minus the manifolds, bolt on the manifolds and magically the engine becomes a US part because final assembly is done here, despite 95% of the parts coming from overseas. I'm certainly not changing my tune. I'd appreciate it if you'd change yours and have the decency to address me without a childish respelling of my name. It really makes your post seem a bit sophomorish in nature.

Speaking of that "parts sourcing issue". Could you exlpain this one Kernel?

Some GM workers to return to Delta | lansingstatejournal.com | Lansing State Journal

Had no idea India was our 51st state.