Pelosi: 'Making history today'

[TrapperGus]

So how big a deal is the House passing (if it does) the Heath Bill?

Is this as big as Social Security or is it just a big gift to the Insurance Companies?

How does it compare to the 1964 Civil Rights Bill? Are members willing to lose their jobs for it like many Democrats did for that bill?

How do you feel about this bill?

I don't think it goes far enough in that a SinglePayer System is the only thing that will truely control the ripping off of the American People by the uberwealthy!

[Tree Rat]

She's historic for sure.

[SBSpartan]

As historic as this?

House Committee on Ways & Means - Republican

[ErnieMcCracken]

Politico is saying they got the votes.

[spartanMF]

up to 5 years in prison for not buying health insurance.

[Zakath]

December 7, 1941 was history too...

[Cym Jim]

Originally Posted by Zakath

December 7, 1941 was history too...

You were years too late on that too .

[Zakath]

Originally Posted by Cym Jim

You were years too late on that too .

Would you prefer September 11, 2001? I'm sure I could come up with a few more disasters that will pale in comparison to the total assraping of the American people and the American free enterprise system that the band of ****ing Socialists in the House of Representatives rammed through today.

[Cym Jim]

Originally Posted by Zakath

Would you prefer September 11, 2001? I'm sure I could come up with a few more disasters that will pale in comparison to the total assraping of the American people and the American free enterprise system that the band of ****ing Socialists in the House of Representatives rammed through today.

Elections have consequences .

[kaiserpete]

Originally Posted by Cym Jim

Elections have consequences .

Exactly...Tuesday's results in VA and NJ will pretty much ensure that this sophmoric BS goes nowhere...

[Cym Jim]

Originally Posted by kaiserpete

Exactly...Tuesday's results in VA and NJ will pretty much ensure that this sophmoric BS goes nowhere...

Good luck with that!

[kaiserpete]

Originally Posted by Cym Jim

Good luck with that!

Like I said in another thread...if tDems pass a public option, 2010 will make 1994 look like a MAC level result.

[Cym Jim]

Originally Posted by kaiserpete

Like I said in another thread...if tDems pass a public option, 2010 will make 1994 look like a MAC level result.

You're going to have to rephrase that .

[TrapperGus]

Originally Posted by kaiserpete

Like I said in another thread...if tDems pass a public option, 2010 will make 1994 look like a MAC level result.

People are mad becuase the stimulas wasn't big enough and the number of people out of work scares everyone. They are generally in favor of the public option. The Democratic Party may take it on the chin in 2010 but it will not be becasue of a Health Care vote.

Still the people who have lost the jobs are not going to vote for the fat cat Republicians...expect a move to the left that none of the MSM is seeing for what it is right now.

[Redwingenator]

Originally Posted by TrapperGus

People are mad becuase the stimulas wasn't big enough and the number of people out of work scares everyone. They are generally in favor of the public option. The Democratic Party may take it on the chin in 2010 but it will not be becasue of a Health Care vote.

Still the people who have lost the jobs are not going to vote for the fat cat Republicians...expect a move to the left that none of the MSM is seeing for what it is right now.

or....

Those that like their health insurance (64% of people in the US) and those that don't want to pay 17% of their income for insurance they don't think they need will show up in droves. People showed up to vote Obama into office and they were passionate about their vote. The same thing will happen as those voted into office have ignored their constituents in favor of backdoor deals with Pelosi and Obama.

[TrapperGus]

Originally Posted by Redwingenator

or....

Those that like their health insurance (64% of people in the US) and those that don't want to pay 17% of their income for insurance they don't think they need will show up in droves. People showed up to vote Obama into office and they were passionate about their vote. The same thing will happen as those voted into office have ignored their constituents in favor of backdoor deals with Pelosi and Obama.

Since the bill doesn't require anyone (that I know of) to change their insurance I'm unsure of waht you mean with your first point.

Your second point is better. There are a number of young people who are freeloading right now who will be paying and they might not be as supportive of Obama. These might be offset by those who couldn't get insurance and now will get a tax break who should be more supportive of Obama.

However if these bills are so bad for the Democrats why are the Republicinas saying that stopping them will destroy the Obama Presidency and then the converse is that passing them will boast the Obama Presidency?

[Tree Rat]

Originally Posted by TrapperGus

People are mad becuase the stimulas wasn't big enough and the number of people out of work scares everyone. They are generally in favor of the public option. The Democratic Party may take it on the chin in 2010 but it will not be becasue of a Health Care vote.

Still the people who have lost the jobs are not going to vote for the fat cat Republicians...expect a move to the left that none of the MSM is seeing for what it is right now.

People aren't mad because the stimulus "wasn't big enough".

People are mad because the climate for business and people that want to work has been destroyed by the ineptness of all the elected representation for decades.

[TrapperGus]

Originally Posted by Tree Rat

People aren't mad because the stimulus "wasn't big enough".

People are mad because the climate for business and people that want to work has been destroyed by the ineptness of all the elected representation for decades.

Well people are scared about their economic well being that is true and being scared makes them easy targets for demogogory from the right about freedom, however the fact of the stimulas is not what they should be mad about as it has slowed the downward trend but instead they should be mad about the last 40 years of de-regulation that caused this problem to begin with. They also should be mad at the 12 years of Republician rule that accelerated the problems instead of trying to solve the problems...this country need to take a hard turn to the left to solve its problems...a contuned drift to the right will just give us more of the same problems.

That said do you think that the House passing the Health Care Reform Bill is historic or not?

[Redwingenator]

Originally Posted by TrapperGus

Since the bill doesn't require anyone (that I know of) to change their insurance I'm unsure of waht you mean with your first point.

Your second point is better. There are a number of young people who are freeloading right now who will be paying and they might not be as supportive of Obama. These might be offset by those who couldn't get insurance and now will get a tax break who should be more supportive of Obama.

However if these bills are so bad for the Democrats why are the Republicinas saying that stopping them will destroy the Obama Presidency and then the converse is that passing them will boast the Obama Presidency?

The government option will undercut private insurance rates and employers will be forced to switch from their private plans because of the economic reality of the situation.

You misunderstand the context of what this means for the Obama administration. Obama is heavily vested in the passage of this health insurance legislation. With an overwhelming democrat majority in the congress a deaf blind mute illiterate president could pass significant health insurance reform. If Obama lacks the skill to navigate his legislation through both houses it shows he is not the "uniter" he pledged to be, nor politically savvy enough to lead an effective administration.

[GRR Spartan]

The public option is just an another outgrowth of cause and effect. There has been a steadfast fight against more government regulation for the whole health care universe, especially when it comes to health insurance.

After the insurance companies successfully built their no more regulation coalition among law makers over the last 30 years they did what all for profit (privately held and stockowner) companies do, they started maximizing profits. CEO pay went from $5-$10 to $30-$50 million/year and with the elimination of Glass-Stegal they got even more advantages. Insurance companies went from 95% of all premiums paid going to pay claims to 85% of that number.

We as US citizens have to decide if health care should be a source of unlimited profit partially funded by refusing insurance to people with pr-existing conditions and denying claims from those with insurance.

Japan and The Netherlands have no public option but tightly regulated insurance companies.

I think the insurance companies will try to stall as long as they can, hope the SCOTUS reverses campaign finance law that will allow corporations to jump into the game and get pro insurance candidates elected over the next decade.

[Zakath]

Originally Posted by TrapperGus

Well people are scared about their economic well being that is true and being scared makes them easy targets for demogogory from the right about freedom, however the fact of the stimulas is not what they should be mad about as it has slowed the downward trend but instead they should be mad about the last 40 years of de-regulation that caused this problem to begin with. They also should be mad at the 12 years of Republician rule that accelerated the problems instead of trying to solve the problems...this country need to take a hard turn to the left to solve its problems...a contuned drift to the right will just give us more of the same problems.

You know, I used to wonder whether you actually believed the bull**** you write or you were just spouting Socialist party line.

I don't have to wonder any more.

[TrapperGus]

Originally Posted by Redwingenator

The government option will undercut private insurance rates and employers will be forced to switch from their private plans because of the economic reality of the situation.

You misunderstand the context of what this means for the Obama administration. Obama is heavily vested in the passage of this health insurance legislation. With an overwhelming democrat majority in the congress a deaf blind mute illiterate president could pass significant health insurance reform. If Obama lacks the skill to navigate his legislation through both houses it shows he is not the "uniter" he pledged to be, nor politically savvy enough to lead an effective administration.

The government option that is being passed is not the one you think it is as it will not have the power to force rates upon the industry...therefore the rest of the idea that it will force out private insurance is wrong. If fact with the forcing of young people who don't have high costs into insurance this is a huge gife the the Insurance companies.

As to your second point unlike the Republicians who have taken on the aspect of the people (totalitarian regeimes) that they think they hate but really admire...the Democratic Party still believes in the liberial point of view that a representivie government elected by the people works and thus you see different points of view in the party that must be accounted for in order to pass this bill...the trick is getting as much as one side wants while getting enough votes...the essence of good politics.

[TrapperGus]

Originally Posted by Zakath

You know, I used to wonder whether you actually believed the bull**** you write or you were just spouting Socialist party line.

I don't have to wonder any more.

My grandfather had a saying about crude language. "Don't bring the dirt from the barn into the house" You should heed that advice.

As for your comment about a "Socialist Party Line" I am not aware of a Socialist Party (though I may have seen that name on a ballot somewhere...I'm not sure) and as to what their "line" would be. However I can read and think and see what is happening and draw conclusions from that...however I don't for a NY minute think that my pointing out the truth to people like you will do any good as you have to have an open mind before you can think.

[lars]

If a government plan is part of the deal, "as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Connecticut independent whose vote Democrats need to overcome GOP filibusters.
"The House bill is dead on arrival in the Senate," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said dismissively.

House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate - Yahoo! News

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Originally Posted by Zakath

Would you prefer September 11, 2001? I'm sure I could come up with a few more disasters that will pale in comparison to the total assraping of the American people and the American free enterprise system that the band of ****ing Socialists in the House of Representatives rammed through today.

The Pearl Harbor attack and 9/11 "pale in comparison" to a health care bill? Now I have to ask you: are you just spouting the party line or do you believe this bull****?